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one of the most amazing things that the\h
whole experience was creating the pilot\h\h

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and that it was a real was a TV movie it\h
was a full-length film face I know I got\h\h

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one of the best place we've built\h
but what if this guy's got a wall

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we started talking about different directors\h
we were talking mostly about pretty traditional\h\h

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respected but very traditional TV directors\h
people that had done some good episodes but\h\h

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that had done maybe a big pilot or a movie of the\h
week kind of thing and we had some good meetings\h\h

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with people but we never felt like we found\h
the person who really got the material so at\h\h

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one point we were looking for lists of names\h
that would be approved by the network and I\h\h

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think I just floated well you know I mean I know\h
tobe Hooper I mean you know he's done some some\h\h

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great stuff what about him and he was put on\h
a list and suddenly it's like Gabby get Toby\h\h

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that'd be great and I just I remember I called\h
him up and brought him in and he was like one\h\h

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of the first directors that came in and and\h
got it both kind of viscerally where he just\h\h

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loved it and then he started talking about\h
you know what I would want to do is I'd want\h\h

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to work with this DP and I'd want to do this\h
and I'd want to use the Godfather pallets you\h\h

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know and I'd want to committed and he had this\h
vision of of what it would look and feel like

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you tell me mr. long guard

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does this look Russian to you the prequel to\h
the Tobii meaning story though is we had had\h\h

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one nightmare meeting from hell with a director\h
who I I don't actually remember his name but I\h\h

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believe he was one of the a list directors of\h
television in Hollywood and and had some great\h\h

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track record and this guy came in and it did\h
minced no words he was going to rewrite the\h\h

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whole script and you know we probably be lucky\h
if he would let us stick you know come to the\h\h

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set kind of thing it was it was I think we both\h
walked out of that one that this is a looming\h\h

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horrific disaster and yet it was a viable thing\h
because he was a big name and then Toby came in\h\h

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and his Brent said Toby was very respectful of\h
the material he came in and said I've read your\h\h

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script twice and he said I I don't want to change\h
it I want to get it on film and so when he walked\h\h

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out I think we both said okay how do we get tophi\h
the gig yeah because it's the only way to preserve\h\h

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our vision in any way yeah it's natural to fight\h
it but by now you know where this must end Oh see

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hello John tobe Hooper's he's the man he's a\h
legend you know I certainly knew who he was\h\h

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and he's such an unusual unique individual and\h
he really created such an appropriate vibe the\h\h

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guy's such a visionary and he's so good at at you\h
know getting what he wants and in the look of it\h\h

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and communicating what he wasn't he was always\h
in for collaboration he was very supportive and\h\h

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very creative he was explained himself really\h
well and he never put a pressure on the actors\h\h

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to do something that they didn't understand I'd\h
always wanted to go to him and say hey you know\h\h

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in any notes you know the after after we do it\h
taken and I hate Toby you have any notes and he'd\h\h

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be thinking about the shot and he go uh yeah he\h
never cigar oh yeah ah yeah okay yeah yeah yeah\h\h

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all right let's go roll camera and he would like\h
he wouldn't even give me direction just give me\h\h

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this kind of guy yeah yeah yeah that's alright\h
do that it like okay then you I look over at JT\h\h

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or ever they go hey you know this is what it is\h
it's very cool it's very much a product of the\h\h

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60s very much um and I think it helped us all\h
I think it really did to have somebody who had\h\h

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the experience but also the ease you know as\h
a high-pressure environment and he he always\h\h

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calmed me down at least you know with Toby he\h
came in and and he saw little details you know\h\h

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he he said we're going to shoot your script what\h
I'm going to find is little opportunities to just\h\h

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give it extra texture I remember one specific\h
thing that I just love about the pilot is the\h\h

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crop circle scene and I remember we wouldn't scout\h
or looking for places to do the crop circle and\h\h

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we found a ranch up a new hall or up near the\h
grapevine somewhere we walked around we were\h\h

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looking for the specific site and kind of thinking\h
where would this look good from a helicopter and\h\h

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whatnot and he said let's do it here and let's run\h
it through the fence I've never seen that before\h\h

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and I said really that just seems weird and he\h
goes I'll think about it and then we'll have a\h\h

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shot where we can like see that the wires were\h
melted and you go wow I've never seen that in a\h\h

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crop circle before and and he said to me he goes\h
you think aliens care if there's a fence there\h\h

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you know and I just thought well that's I'd see\h
I like a director that thinks about those kind of\h\h

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details and just then when I remember watching\h
him frame that shot where he's looking at lone\h\h

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guard he's racking focus on the little melted ends\h
of the fence and putting those little details in\h\h

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those were the things that he got really excited\h
about finding his little ways to put kind of his\h\h

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signature on our story see any strange lights\h
in the sky over the last month or two what you\h\h

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seems then my god this is amazing the stalks are\h
laid down perfectly it looks like they're woven\h\h

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together it was 47 minutes long in its first cut\h
yes right I remember just hearing that and saying\h\h

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I think I've you've a deck that can't be right\h
right because 47 minutes long is that that's you\h\h

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don't just trim out a few thing No so there's\h
all kinds of wonderful things that were in that\h\h

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original pilot that that never made it they I have\h
a dream speech we recreated in 15 degree weather\h\h

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and I think it happened in August yeah was very\h
odd so we would literally be prepared to shoot\h\h

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people would drop their jackets he'd call action\h
they'd act and then when cut happened everybody\h\h

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grabbed their jackets and and and tried to warm\h
up we like tape tape and plastic bag our feet\h\h

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cuz we had to stay on the grass all day long and\h
it was frozen thank you was frozen who's supposed\h\h

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to be spring again movie magic a movie making that\h
scene because we were so long is not in the pilot\h\h

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that was lost and then that the White House tore\h
the Jackie Onassis White House tour they actually\h\h

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had me accidentally walk in on Jackie Onassis\h
while she was giving a tour of the Oval Office\h\h

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and I it was amazing they actually had me walk\h
in and she looks at me and I'm sorry first lady\h\h

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and I walk out it was the kind of thing where we\h
went back and we found a moment in Jackie's tour\h\h

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where she just for inexplicably looks back like\h
someone had said something to her off screen and\h\h

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so we filmed you know Lo and guard looking for\h
Sayers and he you know kind of opens the door\h\h

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in the back row whoops I didn't know this it looks\h
pretty good and it looked like absolutely real for\h\h

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it that shows the desperation of how long we work\h
yeah you've got to be substantially long to have\h\h

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to cut moments like that out that cost a lot of\h
money yeah it cost a lot of money to shoot that\h\h

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we shot that first full original pilot in 1995 and\h
that was edited and that version literally aired\h\h

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overseas and as we were going into production on\h
fresh episodes our Edit room as I recall was next\h\h

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door to an edit room for the MIB movie yeah and\h
there was grave concern that our men in black were\h\h

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called men in black and wore black suits men in\h
black are historically a well documented entity\h\h

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of you know government agents who wear black\h
suits and they do mysterious things involving\h\h

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aliens well because this other movie had men\h
in black we needed to have men in dark gray I'd\h\h

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written a movie that was produced for the sci-fi\h
channel that had men in black in it I'd written\h\h

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a Clovis and Clark episode that had men in black\h
in it you know it's like men in black out there\h\h

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in the zeitgeist but when I made this argument to\h
one of the executives who shall remain nameless\h\h

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that executive came down to the set and had lunch\h
with us that day and said if you don't get your\h\h

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guys out of the black suits today we will shut\h
down your production and burn the negative so we\h\h

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had to get everybody out of black suits we had to\h
colorize some of them we had to reshoot numerous\h\h

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scenes to get them into different colored suits we\h
had to not call the men in black so we called them\h\h

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cloakers we came up a new terminology it could\h
have been a complete and total disaster but we\h\h

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sort of decided that if we were going to reshoot\h
scenes just simply get a guy out of a black coat\h\h

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into a brown coat to simply reshoot it exactly as\h
we had done it before might have been interesting\h\h

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for film school etc but that we had perspective\h
that we hadn't had before we'd had a year to\h\h

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work with the project and we knew our characters\h
better and we knew where we were going better so\h\h

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we actually made a few changes here and there and\h
I'm mixed to this day between the two I there are\h\h

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things about the first one that make it better\h
things about the second one that make it better\h\h

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my wish was always that we would have been able\h
to create a hybrid version where we took the best\h\h

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of the first version and the best of the second\h
version and had the definitive cut if you can't\h\h

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do that because the suits won't match now yes\h
absolutely John go get one of those containers\h\h

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over there will you don't damages it was a\h
testament to everyone involved that we were able\h\h

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to actually survive that we live to fight another\h
day and and I'm glad we did because we made 20\h\h

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hours of an exceptional series so rube that's how\h
you got a look at it sir here bourbon and seven

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thank you

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making a series with sci-fi elements and\h
historical reenactments is one thing and\h\h

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it's quite another thing to make it set in the 60s\h
there wasn't a ton of digital effects in it there\h\h

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wasn't really even a ton of stunts mm-hmm a lot of\h
money went towards costuming set design you know\h\h

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and going to practical locations and redressing\h
them you need cars that was something that really\h\h

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started impacting how we could tell the stories\h
because we had to really we write a draft that\h\h

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was fairly ambitious and then it would get you\h
know the reality check by the line producers it\h\h

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would come back and say okay well I don't know\h
where we're going to shoot this we don't have\h\h

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this location and towards the end of the season\h
we started working in closer collaboration with\h\h

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them to say hey this is what we've got coming\h
down the pipeline can you start looking for\h\h

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locations now so we can start writing to them a\h
little bit because that was always a challenge\h\h

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is how much of our budget are we going to spend\h
just doing a walk and talk scene on a street that\h\h

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has to be completely redressed just has to be a\h
mistake they said he was never in hospitals you\h\h

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know record above it all Balfour and be just\h
four sent us some poundage on this is listen\h\h

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I can feel it this is real no no one said it is\h
too good to be true opening John John 17 years\h\h

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every background actor who came on the show\h
and every ester who came and they sure had to\h\h

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get a haircut they used to have to set up a base\h
camp for the hair and makeup department because\h\h

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people looked different and you can't come in\h
with an appropriate hair it completely throws\h\h

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it so every guy got a haircut and women all came\h
in and their rollers I have to imagine that each\h\h

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department when they got this script you know\h
just got excited they're like this is gonna\h\h

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be really fun I concerned myself a lot about\h
hair and underwear one of the most important\h\h

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character traits that I had to learn was from\h
was actually from the costume designer was that\h\h

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everything about my character started from the\h
underwear up so I was given a Playtex bra women\h\h

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don't wear Playtex bras now but just that little\h
detail was so inspiring because as an actor the\h\h

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more you have structurally to put yourself in the\h
easier it is for you to then present the character\h\h

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within the circumstances you don't have to man\h
you sure those things excuse me mrs. Lincoln hi\h\h

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good morning I'm Kimberly Sayers I work for Alicia\h
Burnside there was one advantage though when you\h\h

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set the entire series in a time period so for the\h
1960s it's not like we're a regular episode doing\h\h

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flashback scenes to the 60s and have to challenge\h
everyone to accomplish that every member of the\h\h

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cast and crew knew we're in the 60s that's\h
where we live from the minute anyone started\h\h

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from set design to simply getting the cars the\h
decisions you made in the first episodes paid\h\h

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off dividends in relationships and so forth in\h
the later ones you look at our last episode for\h\h

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example bloodlines and it's just chock-full\h
of all kinds of great looks and things and we\h\h

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were honest very strict budget at that time\h
and yet it's one of our richest looking most\h\h

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powerful episodes because everybody was smarter\h
everybody knew where to push who to ask a favor\h\h

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for out how to get it on there so sticking\h
with something that allows you to do it well

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here would have brought Junko guys we could\h
also help that we shot here in LA there's\h\h

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still a lot of vestiges of the 50s and 60s that\h
can be found here whereas a lot of shows that\h\h

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shoot in Vancouver it's very hard to find that\h
kind of Americana look and feel so that was a\h\h

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huge advantage and I know that that was\h
even considered at one point was should\h\h

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we shoot this and up in Vancouver that was very\h
trendy at the time but because we shot here in\h\h

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LA we had a pretty wide palette of you know\h
cultural kind of icons around the city that\h\h

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we could lean into I got a 502 on Avalon\h
and on 18th under the car to take me Oh

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as an actor while I'm working on it my favorite\h
stuff was when I was actually in a scene where we\h\h

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were reenacting something historical for example\h
you know walking along the Potomac with Bobby\h\h

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Kennedy it was one of the few times in my life\h
as an actor where I really felt transported to\h\h

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that time I really felt like it you know I was\h
in HG Wells time machine and had just gone back\h\h

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and here I was nothing suspicious but I did get\h
to see a rehearsal meet one of the Beatles which\h\h

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one John John Lennon I'm sorry he in my favorite\h
it hey jaws pretty good at the end of the day it\h\h

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was mostly a casualty of business and politics\h
what was difficult was how competitive the field\h\h

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was even though there were so few shows like\h
it and I think was most frustrating for all of\h\h

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us I'm sure was the comparison to x-files and we\h
weren't x-files the only thing we had in common\h\h

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was that it was about aliens they had a very\h
hardcore loyal following and so as any you know\h\h

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hardcore loyal following would do they were very\h
protective of their show which meant that they had\h\h

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to then hate dark skies because that we were just\h
seen as a ripoff that was very difficult I think\h\h

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for all of us to sort of say just watch the show\h
and then you'll know we're not the same show you\h\h

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can like it or hate on its own merits that's\h
the great mystery of television and then the\h\h

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shelves are full of series that were like that\h
that just you know didn't get that their their\h\h

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chance and unfortunately I think sometimes maybe\h
it's the money then they start thinking maius is\h\h

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pretty expensive we're not getting the numbers\h
we want maybe we got to pull the plug instead\h\h

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of going you know what let's go one more season\h
and really see if we can really get that audience\h\h

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it's unfortunate but that's that's what happens\h
the other thing which I think any self-respecting\h\h

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producers have to do is complain about their\h
timeslot yes let's do that yeah I think in this\h\h

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case it was fairly legitimate because 8 o'clock\h
is still family hour and you watch dark skies and\h\h

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it's anything but a family show but it's also the\h
the slot that's most vulnerable to preemption so\h\h

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it's the hardest one to keep an audience by the\h
way we got slammed by a lot of parents groups\h\h

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and family organization for being way too violent\h
for an eight o'clock as if we made the choice you\h\h

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know which is interesting there was a UCLA study\h
on violence and television done here that we were\h\h

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on and we were listed as the most violent show on\h
television in terms of being inappropriate in its\h\h

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timeslot which I guess you could argue at eight\h
o'clock they specifically highlighted the AR T of\h\h

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Jim Steele in Episode one as being a particularly\h
violent moment in television but they did duly\h\h

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note at the end in this report that the reason\h
it was inappropriate was because of its timeslot

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a lot of time has gone by and as an actor you\h
do you work and you let it go and you set it\h\h

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up because you don't have control over what the\h
fate of it you really don't and that's a hard\h\h

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thing to reconcile but it is it is inevitably\h
the truth and what what will happen on any show\h\h

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but to have people continually and consistently\h
remind me of the work that I did in the past is\h\h

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it's very flattering you know you think hey I'm a\h
part of something that's gonna never go away you\h\h

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know I mean look we're here we're talking about\h
it what 14 years later and a lot of people are\h\h

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gonna discover it I mean I'm hoping my kids will\h
watch this series and I think they'll dig it you\h\h

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know it'll be fun to talk to them about what\h
was going on during this time would you know\h\h

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what's funny is that my son is obsessed with any\h
show about aliens he loves alien creatures and I\h\h

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just sort of chuckle to myself and I've been\h
reviewing them and I think I can have my son\h\h

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watch this it was scary like I was watching\h
something my daughter walked in who's four\h\h

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and she was like what's happening to you why\h
like dude stop leave the room you don't need\h\h

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to see mommy cough up a ganglion you don't need\h
to see this unless maybe I want to threaten her\h\h

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when she's 14 or something you see how angry\h
mommy can get you ever let me go John not yet\h\h

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okay really it were yet Kim I'm sorry I just can't\h
hey let me go are you talking don't you still feel\h\h

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to this day that it's a miracle that we did this\h
it is I hadn't seen the show for four years when\h\h

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I went back and watched some of the screeners I\h
was shocked at several things a at the level of\h\h

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production value we were able to get on a weekly\h
basis but be that unmei gern etwork let us put\h\h

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this on I mean this wasn't FX or this wasn't\h
a friends cable show this was primetime NBC\h\h

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and it's a very subversive show and I'm still\h
shocked to this day that this was allowed to\h\h

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go on at the end of it all even though it's not\h
identical to what we put down in the briefing\h\h

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book that we sold it with the vision of it is\h
still about 90% of what we thought up in that\h\h

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office in 1994 I guess I've think to the fans\h
is if you like it we're thrilled and if if you\h\h

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don't like it it's our fault because we got to do\h
pretty much what we set out to do yeah absolutely

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my name is John Lowen Garth I'm recording this\h
because we may not live through the night they're\h\h